Without/With Catch Can (Atmo) Comparison Pictures + Discussion

[DirtyJerzGTI]

Originally Posted by adamgti

It will get bad enough that eventually cleaning will become a giant necessity. For some that may be at 60k miles, and for others that could be over 100k, but it will need cleaning at some point.

How much does it typically cost to clean? Or rather how many hours does it normally take?

[adamgti]

I wouldn't be qualified to answer either of those questions, haven't needed to do it to mine yet. I'm at 66k right now and have been tracking my mileage every tank for the last 45k miles or so, once I see my average start to trend downward I plan to clean the valves myself. Or if I start getting misfires/other issues that could potentially be caused by caked valves, whichever comes first.

[donjuan1jr]

Originally Posted by DirtyJerzGTI

How much does it typically cost to clean? Or rather how many hours does it normally take?

Its a long job, 8hrs or so but that includes soaking the valves.

Dynamic motorworks charges 400 for that job.

[Wild Hare]

Originally Posted by xola3que

I foresee a surge of CCs up for sale soon.

Or not being purchased.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

While CCs dont magically prevent carbon buildup there are still benefits to using one

[Vageline]

Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic

While CCs dont magically prevent carbon buildup there are still benefits to using one

yeah, i knew they didnt prevent buildup when i bought mine. i dont want the sludge going back in and i wanted to fix the pcv problem.

[mark920]

Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic

While CCs dont magically prevent carbon buildup there are still benefits to using one

what are the benefits? At least compared to the newest revision pcv?

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[vath]

subscribed....

[Nataraki]

I wonder if most of the recent German cars, i.e. Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz with Direct Injection engines have this kind of problem as well.

[adamgti]

Yes

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[Nerdavison]

Well going off of what somebody said about EGR system causing this. If the catch can vented to atmosphere that removes the pcv system entirely. So would there be some method of doing something similar to the catch can on the PCV system but on the EGR system to help alleviate this problem? If that is the source of the buildup, which it would appear so would be a very worthwhile thing to look into I'd imagine. Now if only I had an engineering degree or more knowledge.

[Red5pade]

Originally Posted by Nerdavison

Well going off of what somebody said about EGR system causing this. If the catch can vented to atmosphere that removes the pcv system entirely. So would there be some method of doing something similar to the catch can on the PCV system but on the EGR system to help alleviate this problem? If that is the source of the buildup, which it would appear so would be a very worthwhile thing to look into I'd imagine. Now if only I had an engineering degree or more knowledge.

the buildup is from leaking valve seals

[bostonaudi]

Here's another take - why bother cleaning at all?

I took my manifold off at 70k to upgrade to S3 injectors, yup, the intake valves had gunk on them - so what. Until the cause is somehow solved, hours spent scrubbing them clean seems like time not well spent - as soon as you put it back together the build up resumes - you haven't fixed anything. I could better spend that time guzzling another 6 pack and passing out on back lawn (I used to on front lawn but wifey said no). I doubt there's much if any difference in power between gunked up valves and sparkly clean ones - we have turbo's forcing the air through anyhow, but it would be interesting to see back to back dyno runs to put that notion to the test.

[big_nebrowski]

Unfortunately the carbon buildup can cause misfires, but I believe it is only under a light engine load. Attending a track day and running my car at 5k + rpm for an hour seemed to get rid of the CEL i had.

[bostonaudi]

Originally Posted by big_nebrowski

Unfortunately the carbon buildup can cause misfires, but I believe it is only under a light engine load. Attending a track day and running my car at 5k + rpm for an hour seemed to get rid of the CEL i had.

After taking mine apart I noticed that carbon builds up on the injector tips pretty badly - in fact I'm not sure how these engines run at all. Once in the +50k mi range, I'd guess carbon and crap building up around the tip contributes to misfires as well.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

Picture a typical fat lazy American with clogged arteries.
If you know the arteries are starting to clog should you perform surgery to allow the blood to free flow through your body or wait untill your arteries are in the finals stages of clogging and you begin to die to clean them?
If you had the I.M. already off, whats it hurt to clean the valves? Itll cost you a couple of hours and $20 worth of cleaning chemicals, wire brushes, and picks.

[TheTroyness]

When I cleaned my valves, it only took a few hours to figure out how to take it all apart and get to the valves (while taking pictures of everything and making notes of what tools I used where and all those sorts of details), and clean out half of them. Overall, I spent about a days worth of time in the garage. Aside from documenting the hell out of everything and figuring out how to do it as I went, I also swapped out my intercooler. Cleaning the valves really isn't that bad. At least not as bad as it looks or is hyped up to be. I consider it preventative maintenance. I want to take the best care of my car as possible so it will serve me for as long as it can.
Yea, I can just not clean the valves and it will still run. I can also just not change the oil and it will still run. And I can put regular fuel in it and it will run. And never change my spark plugs. It might not help, but it definitely won't hurt. It boils down to whether you want to extend the life of your car as long as you can or if you plan on just getting a new car every so often and letting someone else deal with any problems that may crop up.
I mean seriously, who can't spare a day every other year or more to make your engine a little happier? But then again, I like working on things...

[boki]

Originally Posted by bostonaudi

After taking mine apart I noticed that carbon builds up on the injector tips pretty badly - in fact I'm not sure how these engines run at all. Once in the +50k mi range, I'd guess carbon and crap building up around the tip contributes to misfires as well.

^This seems more alarming to me - can someone post a photo of a dirty injector? And what would be the suggested methods of cleaning them? I doubt that simple swipe with a cloth dumped in carb cleaner would help, right? That could actually push the gunk inside the injector holes and how would someone go about cleaning those dirt filled holes? Would a needle be small enough or would you need something even smaller? Or is there a service where you could take your injectors to that would apply pressure cleaning with some sort of chemicals specially formulated for that?

[jpawl]

Cleaning the intake valves manually and inspection of the cam follower should be added to the maintenance schedule.

Jim

[BSH Speedshop]

Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic

While CCs dont magically prevent carbon buildup there are still benefits to using one

Ironically, the benefits you speak of are the only reason anyone on other platforms ever bought a catch can in the first place.

No oil vapor in the combustion chamber (More timing! Greater detonation thresh hold)

No oil in intercooler piping (great for not having it splash in your face)

No oil being burned/hardened onto your piston tops (great for longevity, and think of how tough is to clean intake valves, now do that to your pistons)

Ooh something shiny! (look and sound like an automotive boss when you tell your friends and family what it is and why it is there)

People buy "One touch hatch struts!" and "Led floor lights!"... something with actual performance benefits shouldn't be such a confusing concept.

Edit: not taking away from the convo as yes the valves weeping and gumming up everything is an even bigger performance issue but short of a valve train rebuild, get your brushes out because this is happening.

[Maximum6]

so the conclusion is...

PCV Fix from BSH is the way to go..

or the Latest revision from VW.

My pcv went out weeks ago. The shop gave me the latest revision ( or so i believed, as they mentioned there has been 8 revisions or something like that from VW/Audi)

Also, i heard about the "italian tuneup". Redline the car or take it to a track day, and it may burn up all the build up? Seems like someone on this thread said it worked for them.

[DJ Spice]

Regardless of all the negativity of having/buying a CC I'm keeping mine in...