4 Door but Fast?

[BurntGauge]

I know this topic of mine has been rehashed a few times...but I am really confused. I wanna get out of my GTI and get back into either RWD or go to AWD. I need something more sporty, yet has 4 doors. Also, I'd like a manual and have it not look like balls.

This is what I have been looking at lately:

*BMW 335i (used)
Pros: fast, looks good, luxury, handles well, a Car & Drive TenBest
Cons: costly repairs down the line, could have been beat on

*Subaru STi (new/used)
Pros: new and unabused, AWD, highly moddable
Cons: if used, definitely probably beat on, dunno about Subaru reliability, high cost to insure

*BMW M5 (E39)
Pros: dream car of mine, fast, handles well, Clive Owen BWM Film's (the Star)
Cons: heavy, older than I'd like (2003 at best), repair costs, reliability?

I dont know what else to be honest...any other suggestions? I mean if I had the money in the world, I'd have two cars or just get a M3 Sedan (new) but I dont have that kind of cash.

LMK.

[utekineir]

all the auto publications had pegged the g8 gxp as the poor mans m5,

maybe thats an option

not sure theres any new ones on lots anymore but most of the used ones were probably owned by middle aged men that were having a mid life crisis and couldn't afford a vette as a weekend car

[pitbull592]

Why not a older S4? 4 doors, with twin turbos highly moddable, your still in the vag family

[kirk180]

Thought about a 4 door A3 S-line with quattro? That's what I did when I got tired of my GTI. I have and love the 3.2 liter VR6 myself, but they don't make them anymore. I got one from the last year they were made, and don't see myself getting tired of it anytime soon (That's saying a lot for me). You'd need to get an '08 or older for the 3.2 though. Still the new A3 2.0T with Quattro is a nice upgrade. Then again, you can find 3.2 new ones on the lot still in some places.

Good luck with whatever you get.

[PureDrive]

Originally Posted by kirk180

Thought about a 4 door A3 S-line with quattro? That's what I did when I got tired of my GTI. I have and love the 3.2 liter VR6 myself, but they don't make them anymore. I got one from the last year they were made, and don't see myself getting tired of it anytime soon (That's saying a lot for me). You'd need to get an '08 or older for the 3.2 though. Still the new A3 2.0T with Quattro is a nice upgrade. Then again, you can find 3.2 new ones on the lot still in some places.

Good luck with whatever you get.

Pretty good suggestion.

Around the Subaru, the reliability was better a few years ago, but they are still pretty good. As you said though, it will probably be hard to find an STI that was not owned by someone who used the car as it was intended. However, the 08+ STI's are softer than the older version and definately some have been purchased by people who are not diehard enthusiasts. There are definately some cars out there that have been people's sporty daily driver and not some car that someone tried to reenact Fast and Furious in. If you find one you like, definately get it inspected by a independent party.

Also the suggestions of the Pontiac G8 is a great idea. The V8 equiped car seems pretty damn awesome and you could probably get a barely used one for decent money.

[BurntGauge]

I thought about the G8 and I think only the GXP is manual IIRC. I also just searched ebay & autotrader and there's NO GXP's for sale. Obviously not the only places to look.

The older S4's w/TT are a bit too old. I mean the reliability will severely have to come into question w/something like that. I am afraid of used turbo cars being just ragged out...modded...or worse.

The A3 Quattro idea is not a bad idea. What's better the 2.0T or the 3.2 V6 in your opinion? Is there a manual in both?

[PureDrive]

Originally Posted by BurntGauge

I thought about the G8 and I think only the GXP is manual IIRC. I also just searched ebay & autotrader and there's NO GXP's for sale. Obviously not the only places to look.

The older S4's w/TT are a bit too old. I mean the reliability will severely have to come into question w/something like that. I am afraid of used turbo cars being just ragged out...modded...or worse.

The A3 Quattro idea is not a bad idea. What's better the 2.0T or the 3.2 V6 in your opinion? Is there a manual in both?

There is the problem..........You can't get a manual with the V6 AWD...........

[07Noside]

I'll let you know what I think of the STI I'm going to test drive one this week some time! I'm in the same boat as you are!
Originally I was looking for an EVO 9 but finding one that hasnt been completely molested is terribly difficult. Then I decided to go brand new again, I wanted AWD, RWD decent power but I need decent fuel economy so its really between the sti and evo and well new vs new the sti beats out the evo in every aspect IMO.
I was thinking about waiting it out untill the end of the year and looking into the new 2011 mustang with the new 5.0l in it but none the less fuel economy is not something that goes with v8s imo lol.
as far as the a3 quattro afaik it only comes in slush box automatic no dsg or 6mt and IMO the 3.2l vr6 is a waste of a motor. just chip the 2.0t and you'll have more tq and hp then you would with the v6.

[rbradleymedmd]

B5 s4's are not a very good investment for someone looking for a reliable DD vehicle. Depending on the MY, you could run into a heap of engine trouble (turbo failure) to suspension issues (controll arms and other areas have higher than normal failure rate). With that said, what's your budget? What about a manual A4 with the 2.0t? How about a slightly used b6/b7 (probably try to find a b7) S4 with the 4.2L v8? Thoughts on a CC with the 2.0t or 3.6 (no manual, but I think DSG)?

[kirk180]

Originally Posted by 07Noside

as far as the a3 quattro afaik it only comes in slush box automatic no dsg or 6mt and IMO the 3.2l vr6 is a waste of a motor. just chip the 2.0t and you'll have more tq and hp then you would with the v6.

Not true. I have a 3.2 S-line, and they do in fact come with DSG. Slush box autos use to be in the 2.0T. You can get A3's with DSG now.

As far as which is better. It depends on the driver. The A3 3.2 is pretty much the same performance set up as an R32. So whether you like the 2.0T more or not is up to you. Personally speaking, I sold my 2.0T and got the 3.2 for the looks/fit&finish, the Quattro, the increase in low end torque (off the line pull), smoothness between gears with the DSG (as opposed to the GTI being a bit more rough), and it being the last year for a great engine was a selling point for me as well. Personally, I just had to have a VR6 before it was too late. So I wanted one from the last year they were made. It's rock solid, normally aspirated, and the engine will more than likely outlast the GTI's. I wanted something NA that came with grunt out of the box as well. Audi badge is a nice selling point too.

To each his own though. My wife drives an '08 CW GTI that still looks amazing, and is fun to drive. But way more times than not, we both prefer to take the Audi.

Check out some of the guys on the TEX whips. There's pages of A3's:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...185845&page=28

[07Noside]

Originally Posted by kirk180

Not true. I have a 3.2 S-line, and they do in fact come with DSG. Slush box autos use to be in the 2.0T. You can get A3's with DSG now.

As far as which is better. It depends on the driver. The A3 3.2 is pretty much the same performance set up as an R32. So whether you like the 2.0T more or not is up to you. Personally speaking, I sold my 2.0T and got the 3.2 for the looks/fit&finish, the Quattro, the increase in low end torque (off the line pull), smoothness between gears with the DSG (as opposed to the GTI being a bit more rough), and it being the last year for a great engine was a selling point for me as well. Personally, I just had to have a VR6 before it was too late. So I wanted one from the last year they were made. It's rock solid, normally aspirated, and the engine will more than likely outlast the GTI's. I wanted something NA that came with grunt out of the box as well. Audi badge is a nice selling point too.

To each his own though. My wife drives an '08 CW GTI that still looks amazing, and is fun to drive. But way more times than not, we both prefer to take the Audi.

Check out some of the guys on the TEX whips. There's pages of A3's:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...185845&page=28

I completely agree as far as the a3 being more refined in feel and design just by what I read the op was looking for a bit more of a powerful car and more fun to drive. IMO sure the 3.2 is good for what it is but does not hold much as far as what you can turn it into. Sure you can boost it but for $10k. Otherwise I feel the 2.0t especially the tsi motor can produce better results. As far as low end tq yes in stock form the 2.0t loses to the 3.2l but as the majority of us know a simple $500 upgrade to the ecu can pretty much compete spot on with the 3.2l and dominate it as far as daily driving fuel consumption. Its great you can get the DSG trans now as well as the last time I looked all that was offered was the regular auto.

I've driven both R32, chipped with cbe and intake along with haldex upgrade and dsg software vs my gti. Its refined but thats about as far as you can go performance wise within a moderate budget. Most of the owners that I've spoken with that have gone from a modified GTI most of the time due to accident that pick up an R32 have had regrets as far as power. driving dynamics the R is in favor but there aren't to many moutain roads around here that you can actually push the car hard enough to need that AWD.

I've looked into the A3 with quattro as well and was going to hold out for the R20 but as far as what I want and what I'm looking to do the evo/sti is just what fits me best. Again I have no family to worry about and I'm only 21 so an aggressive feeling car is what I'm in the market for. Affordable modding and overall daily fuel economy are really big points for me.

If I were a bit older and had a family with kids to look after the a3/a4 platform might with a more refined and confortable driving style would then fit me better.

still great cars none the less I wish that vag would offer something more suitable to what I'm looking for at the moment because I've done nothing but enjoy my german made vehicle over the pat few years! I just feel its more of a toy then a machine at this point.
It all comes down to need vs wants and what you can settle on vs what you have to spend.

[kirk180]

I agree with most of what you've said, and disagree with a little. But I think perhaps it's just that our wants are different. Yep, you can tune out a 2.0T as much as you'd like...but a reflashed 2.0t is going to eventually run into reliability issues... Plus it's still a FWD. Where as you're not going to get that with the VR6 AWD. You'll just get a nice low end pulling, AWD, plenty of power VR6 that sounds a lot nicer. Other than buying a V8, you just can't beat the sound of a performance 6. Turbo'd 4's just don't have it. And the suspension with the S-line package comes euro lowered and stiffened out. So the drive's a joy in the twisties out of the box...much better than that of a stock A3 or GTI. I also dig the double panel all glass roof with dual moon roofs on the A3. I think it looks great. But you're right...it's not the most powerful car out there. Still, I'd take one any day over the Subie. I've had Subie's and can't keep them for over a year. They're just an all around inferior build that leaves me wanting more.

Either way: All I'm saying is that he might wanna look into the A3...Maybe test drive one. It's a nice ride in many ways, but not the most powerful. I was asked what I preferred...and I said the VR6. I have a MKV GTI in the garage and have APR, and have tuned previous GTI's as well. So I'm well aware of what you can do with the turbo. It's just that I didn't wanna squeeze it for what it's worth anymore and preferred the 6's numbers out of the box, with long term reliability to boot. But hey, if chipping a 2.0T (like the GTI) is what he's into, he can do that and still get Haldex AWD with the A3.

And as far as only being 21 yrs old and preferring a GTI over Audi goes...there's plenty of young members on the Audi forums that have an A3. It just depends on what you're looking for. But I'm not gonna lie...there's a lot of haters driving A3's that can't stand GTI's too.

[pitbull592]

I don't know there's plenty of tt S4's around here in pa that are 150k+ I know a few guys that are running them. I know of a few right now f/s for under 10k. Talk about a sleeper. Twin K04 ftw

[white4dr]

What about the 2004-2005 s4 v8's?

But I agree with you on the m5. also one of my dream cars

[BurntGauge]

The S4 V8's arent as cool looking IMHO as the TT ones.

I dont think I'll be getting the A3. I'd rather the STi personally.

I agree w/that the STi IMHO beats out the Evo in the ways that are important to me.

[dkwince]

335i could be pretty quick with an exhaust and flash. but I would go for an S4 just because theyre the sex.

[Dybz]

what is the actual price limit?

[BurntGauge]

$35k...the lower the better, but you get the idea.

[He15man]

What about a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X(GSR)?

[KingOfJericho]

I'd go STi.

[Polentz@tmotoring]

probaly best bang for the buck would be sti or evo ... but you can get a new evo x gsr out the door for just under 30k and the mods are endless

[BlaineWasHere]

Three letters: STi

Pretty sure it's my next car... just not sure which generation...