What's your track brake setup?

[TXBDan]

Hey guys,

I'd like compile a database of "successful" brake setups you use regularly on track.

Please post your:
Car and its weight and power
Rotors
Calipers
Brake Pads
Min wheel size
Cooling

You can also add a blurb on your experience level, tracks, conditions, anecdotes if you like.

Thanks!

[the bruce]

car - 2008 Mk.V GTI
weight - ~ 1300 kg
power - stock 200 HP
rotors - Tarox F2000 / stock size 312 mm
calipers - stock Ate with brake stiffening kit
brake pads - Ferodo DS Performance
min. wheel size - stock
cooling - RS3 vent + dust shields removed
ABS etc. - emergency stop assist set to '02'
tirers - Federal 595 RS-R

tracks - several auto-X + Nürburgring Nordschleife (no GP circuits)
experience level - frequent auto-X + some Nürburgring

No fading, no issues. I guess this won't be sufficient for longer stints on a GP track.
I will surely swap to Endless MX72 next.



ps:
others might copy the scheme

[cruizin01]

car - 2007 Mk.V 4dr GTI
weight - ~fat
power - 460whp
rotors - 2 piece 330x32 fronts. stock rears
calipers -17z 6 pistons. stock rears
brake pads - Porterfield R4S all around
min. wheel size - 17" OZ track. 18" OZ street
cooling - RS3 vent + dust shields removed
ABS etc. - emergency stop assist set to '02'
Tires- street-255ps'2....track 245RS3's

tracks - couple local tracks
experience level - intermediate

No fading on street. obviously. I get a low pedal after several 20 minute sessions at a fairly high speed track. Added RS3's vents this year. Going to try some higher end brake fluid.

[Deaks2]

car - 2011 GTI DSG
weight - ~ 1300 kg
power - ~ 265 bhp (GIAC Stage 2)
rotors - Stock
calipers - Stock with TyrolSport brass bushings (front)
brake pads - Hawk HP+ (front) Stoptech 309 (rear)
min. wheel size - stock
tires - Hankook R-S3
cooling - dust shields cut down, RS3 vents (on order)
ABS etc. - ATE Super Blue (this year, VW OE DOT 4 last year) emergency stop assist set to '02'

tracks - Ste-Eustache (Montreal), Calabogie (Ottawa), Shannonville, Mecaglisse (Tremblant)
experience level - lapping since 2006 (still slow :p)

[GTI_Speed]

Cruizin01 - How do you like the R4-S? I'm going to be giving them a try next month.

[GTI_Speed]

Car - 2008 Mk.V GTI
Weight - 3200lb?
Power - Stage2+K03 250hp?
Rotors - Adam's Slotted AR Race Rotors 312mm
Calipers - Stock Ate with Tyrolsport brake stiffening kit
Brake pads - EBC YellowStuff
Lines - Goodridge SS
Wheel size - 17x8.0" ET45 TSW Nurburgring ~18lbs
Cooling - dust shields removed
Fluid/Misc. - ATE Super Blue Fluid + Emergency Stop Assist set to '02'
Tires - Kumho Ecsta XS 245/40/17

Tracks - Pittsburgh International Race Complex, AutoX
Experience level - Frequent auto-X + Time Trials since 2010 (Intermediate/Advanced)

I've only done the dust shield delete recently so I can't really judge if it made a difference or not. The fluid was fried anyways. With the shields on ATE Super Blue definitely cannot stand the heat. I would get definite fading on track especially towards the end of the day. The car would still stop though it was very unnerving. The Adams rotors are holding up very strong, there is no lip at the top of the rotor so maybe the pads were just a perfect fit? My rear pads are fried after only 1 year of abuse, which consisted of two track days and autox.

[cruizin01]

Originally Posted by GTI_Speed

Cruizin01 - How do you like the R4-S? I'm going to be giving them a try next month.

They are great. Ive had them on 3 different cars. good initial bite. Never make noise and only minimal brake dust. I highly recommend them. Little pricey though. I think they may be just a bit to "light" for heavy track use. i did have to swap to a new set after the pads got about half warm as they started depositing real bad. But i can't complain as they are not rated for the type of speed i was putting them through.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[TXBDan]

Good info, guys, thanks a lot.

I was prompted to get this together because last weekend my brakes overheated so i'm looking for new options.

I ran Carbotech XP10s front and rear, ATE Type 200, all else stock. (dust shields on)

The pads would fade toward the end of each session. My final session was only 25min after the previous and while out they over heated and i lost the brakes. Ended up blowing through T1, but fortunately we were running the infield chicane in stead of the nascar oval so i just skipped the chicane and went up the oval. The pads were smelling and smoking like crazy, much more than anything i've seen before. I thought they might even be on fire but i dont think they were. Also burned the paint off my calipers.

My next step will be to take the dust shields off and probably try some Hawk DTC-60s up front. I've had lots of good luck with Hawk HT-10s in the past, and i hear these are even better. When i find success i'll add it to the list.

Oh and i'll also sync up this list and the list on mk6.com as well.

[GTI_Speed]

Originally Posted by cruizin01

They are great. Ive had them on 3 different cars. good initial bite. Never make noise and only minimal brake dust. I highly recommend them. Little pricey though. I think they may be just a bit to "light" for heavy track use. i did have to swap to a new set after the pads got about half warm as they started depositing real bad. But i can't complain as they are not rated for the type of speed i was putting them through.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

I'm going to operate on the assumption that your 6pots generate a little more heat than the stock brakes haha and hope that these can take a little more abuse than the YellowStuff. I see these fitting in somewhere between the EBC YellowStuff and Hawk HP+.

Also anyone with overheating issues tried any of the titanium shims to see if that cuts down any heat?

[TXBDan]

The shims will cut down on heat transferring to your caliper pistons and fluid, but it will actually retain more heat in the pad/rotor since the heat can't transfer to where it did before.

[Akatsuki...]

My car is gone now, as I 've moved on, but here are the specs to my Old GTI

Car and its weight and power 2008 GTI, 3200 lbs? Stock ecu, TBE, Twintake, AWE relocate.. around 200?
Rotors 328MM 2 piece
Calipers stoptech St 40 4 pistons
Brake Pads HP+, then HT10s
Min wheel size 17 x 7.5 et 43 or 17x8 et 47
Cooling: stock

No problems with cooling what so ever. Went around Shannonville Motorsport park, a 4.2 ish km track for about 20 laps and no cool down required still.

[StreetSpeed2000]

Tires contribute massively to braking performance, so I added that as well

car - 2010 GTI
weight - ~ 3100lbs I think
power - Stage 1, 250ish hp
rotors - OEM
calipers - OEM, SS lines
brake pads - Carbotech XP10 in front, XP8 in rear
Fluid - ATE Super Blue
min. wheel size - OEM
Tires - Hankook Ventus RS-3
cooling - Dust shields removed

tracks - Watkins Glen, Mont Tremblant, VIR, Lime Rock, NJMP, Summit Point, Monticello
experience level - Tracking since 2006, made instructor in 2010

I have just basic brake mods, the cornerstone being the race pads. I think this setup will be good enough for 90% of everyone who takes their car on any track. However when you start getting real fast and have driven a lot of cars on track, you'll appreciate the benefits of a big brake 4-6 piston setup. When I get out of my dad's Z06 or my brothers new Mustang GT with Brembos and get into my car it's like "Hey, where's the brake pedal?" But, the car always stops time after time and it's rare that someone out brakes me after a long straight. So while the stock setup is not race car solid, it is more than adequate for most of what anyone could need certainly on the street and with a couple changes generally on the track.

[TXBDan]

^That's a great data point, thanks. Tires are also a great thing to add to the "sheet".

Interesting that I seem to have completely toasted my XP10/XP10 setup at NHMS. Only difference is that i still have my dust shields. I've heard NHMS is rough on brakes, so i guess its either that or or the dust shields.

Is all the paint burned off you calipers? I'm going to swap out the track pads this weekend and i'll be sure to make sure my piston seals are in good shape.

[StreetSpeed2000]

Yes my calipers are a nice dusty grey color at this point! And definitely remove the heat shields - those things toast your inner pads real quick. Also, if your 2010 is a MKVI (like mine) then the non-defeatable ESP will also destroy brakes if you're driving the car with any slip angle whatsoever. Well, maybe not whatsoever but the car won't take much angle at all before the ESP starts riding the brakes through the turns at various spots on your car. I roasted a mostly-new set of XP10s at Summit Point in March because of this. Now after a couple years of struggling with this car trying to drive it passed its limit (but below mine) I dial it back a tenth or two and make sure the ESP light is not flashing through any of the high speed turns. If it is, the car won't let you go any faster and you're just chewing up brake pads for fun. This is one of the many reasons I'll be getting out of the GTI and into a proper track car as soon as funds allow.

Lastly, allow me to plug the Audi Club and say if you're looking for a great group of guys to hit the track with, check out NEQClub.org There are a lot of guys from your neck of the woods who come out to Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, and Tremblant.

Edit: And again, if your car is an MKVI, they've got some electronic braking flimflammery that wasn't going on with my 2006 MKV on the track. I haven't dug deeper enough to solve the problem because it's nothing huge, but the early MKVs felt better at threshold braking than the MKVIs do IMHO.

[TXBDan]

Verrry interesting. Yeh, mine is an MK6. I've previous tracked an E36 M3 and then a SpecE30 and i am pretty amazed at how much i can trail brake and point and shoot this car. I thought it was FWD, but it probably is the "hand of god". Do you think it activates front wheels as much as rear wheels for stability management? I didn't realize the MK5s and MK6s were different in this regard. Do you run with ESP turned off? With it turned off (its just slip control that turns off) the light on the dash steadily blinks. Will the light behavior change when its using ESP?

I've done a few events with ACNA and they've always been top notch. I used to live in Raleigh and VIR was my home track. Miss it!

If only they made a BRZ/FRS with another inch of headroom... ugh.

[Dynjo]

Originally Posted by TXBDan

Yeh, mine is an MK6. Do you think it activates front wheels as much as rear wheels for stability management? I didn't realize the MK5s and MK6s were different in this regard. Do you run with ESP turned off? With it turned off (its just slip control that turns off) the light on the dash steadily blinks. Will the light behavior change when its using ESP?

I've done a few events with ACNA and they've always been top notch. I used to live in Raleigh and VIR was my home track. Miss it!

If only they made a BRZ/FRS with another inch of headroom... ugh.

I think the MkVI has a type of electronic limted slip diff ("XDS") that not only clamps a front brake to control wheelspin, but also uses uses one brake to reduce power-on understeer by biasing torque to one wheel or another (torque vectoring). I imagine the front brakes are doing all sorts of things even though you are off the brake and full on the gas.

I was looking at that flyweight BRZ, too, but also have a problem fitting into Japanese sports cars. Apparently, Germans are taller. Swedes, too, based on my Volvo. Boxsters have a lot of headroom, BTW.

If I were you, I'd invest in a bottle of that temperature-indicating brake paint. It will give you a piece of data that would be very useful to your brake supplier when making the compound choice.

[TXBDan]

Originally Posted by Dynjo

I think the MkVI has a type of electronic limted slip diff ("XDS") that not only clamps a front brake to control wheelspin, but also uses uses one brake to reduce power-on understeer by biasing torque to one wheel or another (torque vectoring). I imagine the front brakes are doing all sorts of things even though you are off the brake and full on the gas.

I was looking at that flyweight BRZ, too, but also have a problem fitting into Japanese sports cars. Apparently, Germans are taller. Swedes, too, based on my Volvo. Boxsters have a lot of headroom, BTW.

If I were you, I'd invest in a bottle of that temperature-indicating brake paint. It will give you a piece of data that would be very useful to your brake supplier when making the compound choice.

Totally good point. I talked about it on the golfmk6 forums but not here. Not only am i running XDS with this car, but i have it set to a more aggressive setting. That is quite likely a contributing factor as i wasn't really having much trouble putting down power. I bet the brakes were working overtime keeping things in check.

I guess one solution is to just throw giant brakes at the car and let it do its thing. I don't like that its helping me though, i'm doing HPDEs to learn how to drive and this is dumbing it down for me.

[technologic]

Car - 2008 MKV Golf R32
Weight - around 3300-3350lbs
Power - 240hp (estimate) wheels
Rotors - Racing Brake 2 Piece Rotors (front/rear)
Calipers - ATE Super Blue with Tyrolsport brake stiffening kit
Brake pads - Carbotech XP20 (f) Hawk HPS (r)
Lines - USP SS
Wheel size - 18x8.0" ET45 Enkei PF01 ~18lbs
Cooling - dust shields removed all around
Fluid/Misc. - ATE Super Blue Fluid
Tires - Nitto NT01 225/40/18

Tracks - Willow Springs, Streets of Willow, AAA Speedway Roval, Buttonwillow
Experience level - Frequent road race(High Intermediate)

I just added a BBK caliper made by Racing Brake which I'll be testing at the track in July.

The setup above has worked wonderful without any issue.

[Dynjo]

Originally Posted by TXBDan

I don't like that its helping me though, i'm doing HPDEs to learn how to drive and this is dumbing it down for me.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to come to grips with the fact that every good race car driver must adjust to the limitations that always exist.

• You can't drive an IndyCar balls-out for the whole 500 or you'll run out of gas
• You can't drive a NASCAR stocker with the tail out all the time or the tires will go away
• You can't throw fresh tires on your Spec Miata for every session or you won't be able to afford to go to the next race (probably)
• You can't drive your daily driver 10/10th every corner every lap every session at the HPDE or it may be coming home on the flatbed. Etc.

I try to do what you suggested earlier. That is, drive hard, but not so hard that the TC light is on too much. I figure if that light is just twinkling a little, that car, at that moment, in that situation, is going about as fast as it can. Isn't that exactly where you want to be?

[miamirice]

Originally Posted by Dynjo

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to come to grips with the fact that every good race car driver must adjust to the limitations that always exist.

• You can't drive an IndyCar balls-out for the whole 500 or you'll run out of gas
• You can't drive a NASCAR stocker with the tail out all the time or the tires will go away
• You can't throw fresh tires on your Spec Miata for every session or you won't be able to afford to go to the next race (probably)
• You can't drive your daily driver 10/10th every corner every lap every session at the HPDE or it may be coming home on the flatbed. Etc.

I try to do what you suggested earlier. That is, drive hard, but not so hard that the TC light is on too much. I figure if that light is just twinkling a little, that car, at that moment, in that situation, is going about as fast as it can. Isn't that exactly where you want to be?

This is spot on. We learned early on in our endurance racing events ( minimum 7 hours, max 24 hours) that while it's fun to go out and run qualifiers, it eats up the consumables. Now we see what the leading teams are running the first 3 hours, then calculate we we need to be running to place us into the "race" in the final hour.

And R compounds certainly have a sweet spot temp wise to get 2-3 best laps.

[GTI_Speed]

Originally Posted by Dynjo

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to come to grips with the fact that every good race car driver must adjust to the limitations that always exist.

• You can't drive an IndyCar balls-out for the whole 500 or you'll run out of gas
• You can't drive a NASCAR stocker with the tail out all the time or the tires will go away
• You can't throw fresh tires on your Spec Miata for every session or you won't be able to afford to go to the next race (probably)
• You can't drive your daily driver 10/10th every corner every lap every session at the HPDE or it may be coming home on the flatbed. Etc.

I try to do what you suggested earlier. That is, drive hard, but not so hard that the TC light is on too much. I figure if that light is just twinkling a little, that car, at that moment, in that situation, is going about as fast as it can. Isn't that exactly where you want to be?

You can in F1 though! They get faster as they go through a race.

[StreetSpeed2000]

Originally Posted by Dynjo

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to come to grips with the fact that every good race car driver must adjust to the limitations that always exist.

• You can't drive an IndyCar balls-out for the whole 500 or you'll run out of gas
• You can't drive a NASCAR stocker with the tail out all the time or the tires will go away
• You can't throw fresh tires on your Spec Miata for every session or you won't be able to afford to go to the next race (probably)
• You can't drive your daily driver 10/10th every corner every lap every session at the HPDE or it may be coming home on the flatbed. Etc.

I try to do what you suggested earlier. That is, drive hard, but not so hard that the TC light is on too much. I figure if that light is just twinkling a little, that car, at that moment, in that situation, is going about as fast as it can. Isn't that exactly where you want to be?

All good stuff. But to your last point, it annoys me that "going as fast as I can go" is only fast as some computer baby-sitter wants me to go. I don't really care if I can go 5 mph faster through a 90 mph sweeper in my hatchback grocery getter, but it sure would be nice to be able to if I wanted. And as I think someone else mentioned, all the non defeatable electronics in the MKVI have halted any ability I have to learn more in a FWD car (for the most part). I could be carrying more slip angle, playing around with rotating the car more coming into turns, but these are all things you can't learn how to do in an MKVI because of the electronics. Plus, having owned an early MKV and driving students' FWD cars now, those things can be a lot of fun.