BRAKE FLUIDS

[the bruce]

brake fluids



make..........DOT Rating......dry boiling point / wet boiling point

(higher wet boiling points recommended)


Amsoil DOT 4 - DOT 4 - 580°F (304°C) / 410°F (210°C)

AP Racing 551 - DOT3 - 527° F (275° C) / 302º F (145º C)

AP Racing 600 - DOT3 - 590° F (310° C) / 410° F (210° C)

AP PRF Racing - DOT4 - 608° F (320º C) / 311° F (155º C)

AP Racing Radi-Cal R4 - DOT4 - 644° F (340° C) / 399º F (204° C)

Ate SL6 - DOT4 + ISO6 - 509° F (265° C) / 347° F (175° C)

Ate Super Blue - DOT4 - 536º F (280º C) / 390º F (194º C)

Ate Super 200 - DOT4 - 536º F (280º C) / 390º F (194º C)

BMW OEM - DOT4 - 446° F (224° C) / 311° F (156° C)

Bosch - DOT3 - 491º F (255º C) / 288º F (142º C)

Bosch - DOT4 - 509º F (265º C) / 329º F (165º C)

Bosch - DOT4+ - 536º F (280º C) / 356º F (180º C)

Brembo LCF 600+ - DOT4 - 601º F (316º C) / 399º F (204º C)

Brembo EVO 500+ - DOT4 - 520º F (271º C) / 336º F (169º C)

Castrol GT LMA - DOT4 - 509º F (265º C) / 311º F (155º C)

Castrol SRF - DOT4 - 590º F (310º C) / 518º F (270º C)

EBC BF 307+ - DOT4 - 589° F (307° C) / 386° F (196° C)

Endless RF-650 - DOT4 - 612° F (323° C) / 425° F (218° C)

Endless S-Four High-Perf. - DOT4 - 567° F (297º C) / 366º F (187º C)

Ferodo Racing DOT5.1 - DOT5.1 - 500° F (260° C) / XXXX (XXXX)

Ferodo Racing Formula - DOT4 - 572° F (300° C) / XXXX (XXXX)

Ferodo Racing Super Formula - DOT4 - 625° F (330° C) / XXXX (XXXX)

GS610 - DOT4 - 610° F (321° C) / 421° F (216° C)

Gunk HD - DOT4 - 510º F (266º C) / 311º F (155º C)

Millers Racing 300 Plus - DOT4 - 590° F (310° C) / XXXX (XXXX)

Motul DOT 5.1 - DOT5.1 - 509º F (265º C) / 365º F (185º C)

Motul RBF 600 - DOT4 - 594º F (312º C) / 402º F (205º C)

Motul RBF 660 - DOT4 - 617º F (325º C) / 400º F (204º C)

Neo Super DOT16 - DOT4 - 610° F (322° C) / 421° F (216° C)

Pentosin Super - DOT4 - 500° F (260° C) / 338° F (170° C)

Pentosin RBF - DOT4 - 572° F (300° C) / 392º F (200° C)

Performance Friction RH665 - DOT4 - 617° F (325° C) / 395° F (195° C)

Project µ G-four 335 - DOT4 - 634° F (335° C) / 429° F (221° C)

Prospeed RS683 - DOT4 - 683° F (360° C) / 439° F (224° C)

Ravenol DOT4 - 500° F (260° C) / 329º F (165° C)

Ravenol DOT5.1 - 500° F (260° C) / 356º F (180° C)

Tarox Roadrace - DOT4 - 583° F (314° C) / 402° F (205° C)

Torque RT700 - DOT4 - 683° F (360° C) / 439° F (226.1° C)

TRW Grand Prix 600 - DOT5.1 - 594º F (312º C) / 400º F (204º C)

Valvoline ProSyn - DOT3/4 - 527º F (275º C) / 347º F (175º C)

Wilwood Hi-Temp 570 - DOT3 - 570º F (299º C) / 284º F (140º C)

Wilwood EXP600 Plus - DOT4 - 633º F (330º C) / 417º F (213º C)

Volkswagen use a J 1704 FMVS16 Audi/VW 501.14 spec. Looks like Ate SL6 is similar.

http://www.ate.de/generator/www/com...msfluessigkeiten/download/bf_flyer_pdf_de.pdf

Ate SL6 has a low temp vicosity of just 700 mm²/s (Super 200 and Super Blue Racing
are rated max 1400 mm²/s). The lower viscosity should help ESP and ABS etc. to work
quicker and smoother in cold environments. I'd recommend SL6 or DOT5.1 fluid for all
those who don't plan to track and who need to drive the car in freezing temperatures.



Parameter ...... DOT 3 .... DOT 4 ..... DOT 5.1
dry boiling point [°C] ... 205 ... 230 ... 260
wet boiling point [°C] ... 140 ... 155 ... 180
viscosity at 100 °C [mm²/s] ... 1,5 ... 1,5 ... 1,5
viscosity at -40 °C [mm²/s] ..... 1500 ... 1800 ... 900

 

[TRC]

nice info thanks!

 

[junker]

Bruce,

What is your opinion on Endless RF-650?

http://www.endlessusa.com/#!__chemical

Dry BP: 323˚C
Wet BP: 218˚C

Allen Ward from Global Motorsports Group said they use it in all of their ALMS race cars with the factory ABS module. Crazy expensive. $45 / 500mL. Extremely low hydgroscopy.

I may buy a bottle of this when I pick up the MX72 pads from GMG.

P.S.: I love this GMG GT3 dyno pull :drool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bVjzIEE7FDk

 

[the bruce]

Dry BP: 323˚C - Simply stunning !! As you can see in my table this is record. :thumbsup:

Wet BP: 218˚C - still better than Ate Blue or Motul

If it is really less hygroscopic compared to others and you swap fluid at least every
18 months then the wet BP isn't as important. RF-650 is simply one of the best you
can get.
If you wanna track and can afford it give it a try. Castrol SRF also isn't cheap. :wink:

Possibly a good idea to bleed some new but cheaper fluid through the system before
to flush all the old stuff out.

 

[ryeboy]

Dry BP: 323˚C - Simply stunning !! As you can see in my table this is record. :thumbsup:

Wet BP: 218˚C - still better than Ate Blue or Motul

If it is really less hygroscopic compared to others and you swap fluid at least every
18 months then the wet BP isn't as important. RF-650 is simply one of the best you
can get.
If you wanna track and can afford it give it a try. Castrol SRF also isn't cheap. :wink:

Possibly a good idea to bleed some new but cheaper fluid through the system before
to flush all the old stuff out.

Is the dry BP for Prospeed RS683 a typo? You list 360°C for it. If so, that is even more amazing.

Edit: confirmed: bp 683°F dry BP for Prospeed RS683, but about the same price as Castrol RTF.

 

[the bruce]

I was wondering as well about this.

http://www.rs683.com/rs683-specifications.html

 

[junker]

Endless RF-650

RF-650

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/gear/epcp_1111_endless_rf650_racing_super_fluid/index.html

"It isn’t often that I go completely gaga over a given product, but when the product blows my expectations out of the water and does something almost magical, it’s time to tell all.

I first read about Endless RF-650 racing brake fluid last summer on a favorite car forum of mine. The thread I found described a slight change in brake pedal feel that I too experienced in my GT3 after 8 to 10 hard, hot laps at my 2-mile home track. Once there was a substantial amount of heat in the brakes, the pedal would exhibit a slight mushiness that was just enough to distract or worry the driver (e.g., me, and I didn’t like it one bit).


FYI: When one notices such a change in the pedal feel when driving at ten-tenths, the wise thing to do is to back off the throttle, let the car cool down and get into the pits before something bad happens. After experiencing this performance flaw a number of times and thoroughly checking my brake system hardware and flushing/bleeding the hydraulic system with a brand name race fluid, I figured it was an inherent issue with my car. As it turned out, I couldn’t find anything wrong, and the problem did not get worse when I continued driving hard, as I later discovered. I also tried various brands of racing fluid, so I was still fairly sure the problem was indeed inherent. One time I even upgraded to a race-quality caliper and rotor brake setup on all four corners, but the issue persisted, albeit after 12 to 14 hot laps instead of 8 to 10.

Soon after I installed the new brakes, I stumbled across the above-mentioned forum thread. It went on to describe Endless RF-650 brake fluid as some sort of miracle fix to the same brake system issue I had. Always wary of the information I read on the web, I decided this time I would suck it up and give it a try, since I had nothing to lose but the $36 per 500ml bottle (two bottles are required to flush most European brake systems).

The results were astonishing. My “mushy-when-hot” pedal issue had completely disappeared under the same multi-lap ten-tenths running conditions and indefinitely beyond, just as the thread had described. I also found my pedal feel to be harder and perfectly consistent under all driving conditions on the street or track. The problem was solved—with the added bonus of improved brake pedal feel and control.

I have since recommended Endless RF-650 to several friends who have all noted similar results. This in itself is amazing. Fittingly, RF-650 is becoming recognized as the highest-spec brake fluid around the world, the same fluid used by Formula One, Touring Car and WRC Rally teams. The specifications of this “magic” polyalkaline glycol ether-based fluid are as follows:

• Dry boiling point: 323° C (613° F)

• Wet boiling point: 218° C (424° F)

• Freezing point: -40° C (-40° F)

Endless RF-650 is currently the official brake fluid supplier to the Mercedes GP Formula One team, and is the factory fill for all new Porsche Cup cars. What else do you need to know? —Doug Neilson"

Read more: http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/...0_racing_super_fluid/index.html#ixzz1pQfx0Qnw

 

[Vageline]

super blue is really cheap for what it does. btw, im doing a brake job here soon. how many liters will i need when i do steel brake lines in the front and rear and a full flush?

 

[junker]

super blue is really cheap for what it does. btw, im doing a brake job here soon. how many liters will i need when i do steel brake lines in the front and rear and a full flush?

Bentley specs 1L (250mL per wheel)

I've used ATE Super Blue alternated with Typ 200 Gold. Same thing different color so can see when your old fluid is cleared. For the price it's hard to go wrong. But I always feel I loose pedal firmness after about a year on it. Maybe it's all fluids I dunno, but I'm going to try something else DOT 5.1 this time.

 

[Vageline]

Bentley specs 1L (250mL per wheel)

I've used ATE Super Blue alternated with Typ 200 Gold. Same thing different color so can see when your old fluid is cleared. For the price it's hard to go wrong. But I always feel I loose pedal firmness after about a year on it. Maybe it's all fluids I dunno, but I'm going to try something else DOT 5.1 this time.

awesome, thanks. mine is kinda squishy now. cant wait to get this all done.

 

[cruizin01]

Im swapping out to endless fluid before my next event. Id been running BMW DOT 4 (free) which is supposedly bottle by ATE with fairly high specs but my pedal is damn near at the floor by the end of a track day. Read a few articles with porsche guys having the same issues and was rectified only with endless fluid.

 

[ryeboy]

Not sure how valid this data is, but it looks like RF-650 and Castrol SRF start off with a similar b.p. when dry (doesn't quite agree with your data of 323 vs 310˚C ). It then shows the SRF falling off a cliff when it gets a bit wet (wet bp ~130˚C). Is it know for being very hygroscopic?

That SRF graph is pretty disturbing. Hard to believe a company like Castrol would have a product that doesn't meet specs.

 

[TXBDan]

I don't think there is a spec for hygroscopy. A lot of higher end race fluids ARE very hygroscopic and need to be flushed far too often for practical daily driver use.

I would use a product with good boil resistance and known safe hygroscopic characteristics like Type-200/Super Blue. If you guys are boiling super blue with proper track pads at HPDEs you're braking wrong. If you're boiling it on street tires you're REALLY doing it wrong.

Brakes should be applied and released smoothly, but with purpose. Braking with less force for a longer amount of time can really heat things up and is quite common with less experienced drivers.

 

[GTIRaider]

:thumbsup:
Great info, thanks for sharing it.

 

[junker]

Motive Products

Motive's Power Bleeders do a great job. About $50 for the standard unit and about $70 for the Black Label unit with a machined cap and deluxe swivel. They also have the ATE and Motul fluids too.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/