Brake upgrades for the track

[etang789]

I tried to add this info to my track day info thread but ran out of room in my original post. I'm adding it here and I'll link to it in the other thread.

Let me start by saying that you do not need to upgrade your brakes and tires in order to participate in a track day (as long as the stock pads and tires have sufficient life left in them). If you cannot afford new tires and brake pads or do not want to deal with getting and installing new parts- by all means DO NOT let this hold you back from going to the track.

If you are planning to go to the track you may want to upgrade your brakes a little bit to help them meet the demands of the track. OEM pads and fluid can become overheated on track and you will start to experience a condition called brake fade. This happens when the interface between the pad and the rotor gets too hot. This is largely due to the inadequacies of the stock pads. Another problem you may run into is a spongy pedal, which happens when the OEM fluid begins to boil. I remained on the OEM pads and fluid for first 2 events I ever did and I ran into both of these problems. After about 5-6 hard laps you will start to have to start modifying your driving to account for the decreased brake performance.

If you want to avoid these issues you will want to start by looking into getting new pads and fluid. You will want to use a DOT4 fluid that has a higher wet boiling point than the OEM DOT3 fluid. I have used and had success with Motul RBF600 and ATE Super Blue. These run about $15 per liter for the ATE and $11 per 0.5L for the Motul. You will need about a liter, but I would order 2L to be safe and have some extra to swap in at the track if needed. You may also want to upgrade your brake lines to stainless steel versions to also help combat a spongy pedal.

You have two options when selecting pads for the track: a set that you can use for both track and street, or a dedicated set of track pads. The street-and-track pads will obviously be a bit of a compromise, but they will still be much better than OEM pads. For a street-and-track set of pads I suggest the Hawk HP+. They will run about $115 for a set of fronts. As a street pad they have a few downsides (a bit more noise, a bit more dust, no wear sensors) but they are one of the only street pads that I would use on track. For a set of track dedicated pads I would suggest Carbotech XP10's which run about $185 a set for the fronts. These pads are not a good street pad by any means but they are fantastic on track. The problem with track pads is that they require bedding before use. You should not run the track pads on the same set of rotors as your street pads without rebedding the rotors for the track pads. Also, the track pads will wear your rotors at a much higher rate. It is a good idea to pick up a second set of OEM rotors for the track pads and swap them on with the track pads. I swap my pads and rotors at the track the night before the event.

So, in short: the easiest and cheapest method is HP+ pads and 2L of ATE Super Blue fluid. The more expensive, effective, and time consuming method is some dedicated Carbotech XP10 pads, a second set of OEM rotors, stainless steel lines and DOT4 fluid.

One additional note, if you are looking for a somewhat firmer pedal you should look into the Tyrol Sport Brake Bushings. Many members (myself included) have installed these and had at least a somewhat noticeable improvement in pedal stiffness. I noticed it to a lesser extent, but others have noticed a large improvement.

With the Tyrol Sport Brake Bushings do you need to service them from time to time like re-grease them...etc? So its pretty much maintainece free?

 

[Dan GSR]

the slide pins should be greased like once a year

 

[Jahan]

Where can I get the heat reflecting tape? Is Lowe's/Home Depot stuff good enough?

 

[Meat]

I've never seen the home depot stuff. You can get gold foil tape at any race or performance shop. I got mine at CDOC at VIR.

 

[autobahngti]

we don't really have any local race shops around here.... I will probably pick some up from the hardware store and give that a shot. couldn't be any WORSE than stock, could it?

 

[siliconcenturion]

I read on the ECS Brake parts page that the rear calipers need to be rotated while retracting them. Is this true?

 

[Meat]

we don't really have any local race shops around here.... I will probably pick some up from the hardware store and give that a shot. couldn't be any WORSE than stock, could it?

A performance automotive shop would also carry it. I've never seen the Home Depot stuff but I guess it might work too, just make sure it isn't cheap stuff that will melt.

I read on the ECS Brake parts page that the rear calipers need to be rotated while retracting them. Is this true?

Yes. There is a tool to do it. http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40013&highlight=brake+diy

 

[tehwhiteegg]

sweet man thanks for the possible combos and useful tips.

 

[asp87]

So it's time for rotors and pads. What better time to upgrade? (my other major mods are in my sig). Since doing all the suspension work I've noticed that the brakes are sort of the weak link in my car, performance wise. I don't do track days or auto cross, but that doesn't mean I never will.

So I've sorta narrowed it down to what I want if I keep the OEM setup.

Hawk HP+ pads
Zimmerman Rotors
Neuspeed SS lines
Tyrolsport bushing set
2L of ATE blue stuff
Total: ~$725

That's more than halfway to a R32 big brake kit, or an entire kit if I play my cards right. I realize the subjectivity of my next question, but is it worth it for my use to keep the OEM style setup?

 

[roastpuff]

The bushing set is unnecessary unless you are doing heavy tracking and noticing uneven wear on your pads. I autocross and I'm still using the stock brake setup, including pads and rotors. I do notice fade on track, but if you're not planning on doing that there isn't really a need for HP+ and I would even caution against it.

HP+ is noisy for street, and not so good cold. HPS is the better choice for that. The R32 setup is not light by all means, and rotors and pads are more expensive (and more limited) than the GTI setup.

I get a subtotal of $516 shipped from DBC Tuning for 2L of ATE fluid, Goodridge SS lines (as good as Neuspeed I would say) and the Zimmerman + HPS rotor/pad package.

 

[Meat]

I would also encourage you to forgo getting the HP+ and get the HPS instead. You don't track right now and for your first few times on track you won't be needing the braking power from the HP+. I advocate for the 2-pad method: a set for the track and a set for the street. Get the HPS for the street for now. They will last your for your first few track events and they are perfectly adequate for autocross. Once you want more out of your brakes on track (say after 2-3 or so events) get a set of dedicated track pads (Carbotechs or Cobalts).

 

[asp87]

Sounds like the R32 setup isn't even close to worth it for me. That's what I wanted to hear. (I didn't want to spend that much :wink

Alrighty, no bushing set. That saves another $100. :smile:

I think the figure of $516 is pretty close to what I calculate with the Zimmerman rotors, HPS pads, SS lines, and 2L of ATE fluid. Sounds like that's what I'm going to go with. Thanks for the replies guys. :thumbsup:

 

[jepva]

Since you guys seem pretty experienced with tracking the GTI, what would you say is the cost-benefit of going to a BBK over upgrading pads and rotors? Is the $1500 on a bbk going to be worth it all or are the HPS' and new rotors sufficient for an occasional track day? I live not too far from VIR here in VA so i'm thinking of going soon.

Are the HP+'s ceramic? I remember when I use to autox my old volvo I had ceramics and they squeaked and were annoying for everyday driving, but they had quite the bite.

 

[Dan GSR]

big brakes with shit pads, are not going to be any better than stock brakes with a mild pad upgrade

 

[bostonaudi]

OEM rotors are better than 99% of the non-OEM rotors out there on street and track. OEM's seem to resist warping and crazing better than the others. A little more expensive but they also last longer.